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My background is in constitutional and civil-rights law, not banking law, and I cannot promise you any legal assistance. But maybe I could find a law firm to refer you to. Maybe I could put you in contact with a law firm that does handle class-action lawsuits against banks.
The more people who were affected by this, the greater the likelihood that a law firm could bring a class-action against the bank over this. Thus, it would probably be useful for each of us to learn more about each other's situation.
I know that the Lieff Cabraser law firm has brought class-action lawsuits against banks over things like bank exchange fees (they can apparently be reached at the email address mail@lchb.com); I don't know whether this is something that they would handle, although it couldn't hurt to ask them, I guess.
"Hi Charles, MSA, all. I sent a Fedexed letter to Everbank with my instructions. I screen-grabbed their advertised rates and other data. I am in contact with all Icelandic banks to gather data to open and account there, plus 3 Nordic states that are sympathetic with Iceland:
sedlabanki@sedlabanki.is
info@kaupthing.is
info@landsbanki.is
Glitnir
nationalbanken@nationalbanken.dk
central.bank@norges-bank.no
registratorn@riksbank.se
I am preparing for a long battle with Everbank should the need arise. Here's a list of valuable web links:
http://www.sec.gov/complaint.shtml
https://tts.sec.gov/acts-ics/do/complaint
https://www2.fdic.gov/starsmail/index.asp\
http://www.ots.treas.gov/?p=ConsumerComplaintsI...
Now, it is my view, as Everbank World Markets is operating outside of the typical CD market due to the foreign currency nature of 'deposits', that it will eventually boil down to standard banking rules described here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Certificate_of_dep...
Remember, we PAID Everbank for the upfront conversion of one currency (in my case, EUR and USD, depending on CD) so that Everbank could HOLD our CDs. The only way Everbank is entitled to force us to liquidate our DEPOSITS is if ISK were to no longer exist, in which case, we have the option of taking delivery of the ISKs ON DEPOSIT, even if it's just to use as wallpaper!
I am also investigating contacts with State Attorney Generals (my state and theirs, namely MO and FL), Class-Action specialists, consumer channels and of course, a personal attorney.
I will keep you all posted, and of course, please post progress you may have made on your own fronts..."
"The Islandic Krona is still in existence. Everbank's account disclosures doc states and has stated that the "account will be used to HOLD funds denominated in a currency other than U.S. dollars". I will not accept a forced liquidation/conversion. If you choose to close my accounts, I demand you send me the actual physical ISKs.
Furthermore, it is absolutely incredible you have not notified me of your intentions, as I had to find out by reading some online-blog. I am ready to consult an attorney and sue Everbank should the need be.
Lastly, I will make this a very public matter, as I'm sure most people aren't aware of how Everbank negates its relationship to its customers and open contracts as soon as the wind blows another way."
I believe the first action we can take must be to make claims with appropriate regulators (the FDIC i think) and exhaust all administrative remedies or a court will not even hear the case. Please stay in touch, and network to find out who else has been victimized.I think a lot of claims will get more attention than just a few.
Truly disgusting that this was advertised and promoted in their very own newsletters.
You can write to me at hbader@cei.org or call me at 202-331-2278.
If you want, I can send you Bloomberg graphs showing that Everbank liquidated CDs at a rate of 171 per dollar on October 6, even though prevailing rates were much better than that on October 3-7.
But I don't know when they liquidated your CD, so maybe those graphs would be less relevant to you.
sedlabanki@sedlabanki.is
info@kaupthing.is
info@landsbanki.is
Glitnir
nationalbanken@nationalbanken.dk
central.bank@norges-bank.no
registratorn@riksbank.se
I am preparing for a long battle with Everbank should the need arise. Here's a list of valuable web links:
http://www.sec.gov/complaint.shtml
https://tts.sec.gov/acts-ics/do/complaint
https://www2.fdic.gov/starsmail/index.asp\
http://www.ots.treas.gov/?p=ConsumerComplaintsI...
Now, it is my view, as Everbank World Markets is operating outside of the typical CD market due to the foreign currency nature of 'deposits', that it will eventually boil down to standard banking rules described here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Certificate_of_dep...
Remember, we PAID Everbank for the upfront conversion of one currency (in my case, EUR and USD, depending on CD) so that Everbank could HOLD our CDs. The only way Everbank is entitled to force us to liquidate our DEPOSITS is if ISK were to no longer exist, in which case, we have the option of taking delivery of the ISKs ON DEPOSIT, even if it's just to use as wallpaper!
I am also investigating contacts with State Attorney Generals (my state and theirs, namely MO and FL), Class-Action specialists, consumer channels and of course, a personal attorney.
I will keep you all posted, and of course, please post progress you may have made on your own fronts...
sedlabanki@sedlabanki.is
info@kaupthing.is
info@landsbanki.is
Glitnir
nationalbanken@nationalbanken.dk
central.bank@norges-bank.no
registratorn@riksbank.se
I am preparing for a long battle with Everbank should the need arise. Here's a list of valuable web links:
http://www.sec.gov/complaint.shtml
https://tts.sec.gov/acts-ics/do/complaint
https://www2.fdic.gov/starsmail/index.asp\
http://www.ots.treas.gov/?p=ConsumerComplaintsI...
Now, it is my view, as Everbank World Markets is operating outside of the typical CD market due to the foreign currency nature of 'deposits', that it will eventually boil down to standard banking rules described here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Certificate_of_dep...
Remember, we PAID Everbank for the upfront conversion of one currency (in my case, EUR and USD, depending on CD) so that Everbank could HOLD our CDs. The only way Everbank is entitled to force us to liquidate our DEPOSITS is if ISK were to no longer exist, in which case, we have the option of taking delivery of the ISKs ON DEPOSIT, even if it's just to use as wallpaper!
I am also investigating contacts with State Attorney Generals (my state and theirs, namely MO and FL), Class-Action specialists, consumer channels and of course, a personal attorney.
I will keep you all posted, and of course, please post progress you may have made on your own fronts...
Currently, the exchange rate would be around 350-450 per dollar, so you should feel quite lucky if you were liquidated in the 100s. IF you force Everbanks hand, they could easily purchase very cheap Krona when it becomes available again, and your CDs would be worth much less.
Given that this is a breach of contract issue, I'm guessing that you would only be entitled to the maturation value of your CDs (which would be very low with the current 350-450 exchange rate).
Those that were liquidated -- count yourselves very, very lucky.
They are more than just a contract party and have fiduciary duties to the depositors. I can only hope the bank regulators see it the same way.
Remarkably, I just received the same (unless we receive instructions from you) automatic rollover notice about another ISK CD 3 days ago.
I also read and printed out the fine print we all accepted when we bought the CDs. The bad news is that they reserved the right to change interest rates at their discretion. The good news is that there is no language giving them the power to close out CDs at will or shifting the risk of a market meltdown to the CD holders.
From a outsider's prospective, it sounds like you are getting worked up over an investment decision you made that lost money/value and you are looking to recoup your losses through the bank that offered the investment. It's like if you bought a stock and the value went to nothing, and it stopped trading. Would you then sue the brokerage firm you bought the stock through? It doesnt sound like this would hold up in court in my opinion for what it's worth.
1. We have Certificate of Deposits in a foreign currency that is still legal tender in Iceland;
2. Everbank has not informed customers of their intention to liquidate. If fact, they continue to claim CDs will be rolled over by default;
3. Everbank is not acknowledging either secure email on their web site or even Fedex letters sent to them
4. Everbank is not meeting even remotely their fiduciary duties, instead they are acting in a way that disregards their customers wishes and interests, rejecting their own commitments to a product they have promoted.
Your points above are valid, but these seem like operational issues that you may not agree with. It does not change the fact that the currency is frozen and transactions cannot be cleared.
1. I think we have established the CDs are not legal tender in that country.
2. From the above posts, it sounds like they did notify you they were liquidating the CDs
3. I dont think a bank is required to post online that they received a FedEx letter?
4. This is true, that they are acting against your wishes, but it sounds like neither you nor the bank has much of a choice at this point.
I am not directly involved in this, so I apologize if I come across as butting in, but it sounds like someone needs to play devil's advocate, and a lot of what I have read just seems contradictive.
I guess what I am trying to figure out is what, exactly, are you trying to recover? I can guarantee you will not get your initial investment back, and if you are looking to recover what your investment is worth, by my account that value is little to nothing at this point. It seems to me that you are looking for the bank to take on your loss.... a risk of loss you assumed when you began the investment. It doesnt sound like Everbank crippled the Icelandic financial system, so why should they have to pay for your loss?
BTW, if I were investing in currencies (which I do) I probably wouldnt have gone with Iceland in the first place, which by most accounts is a VERY speculative currency. There is a such thing as risk/reward trade-off.
[...]by my account that value is little to nothing at this point[...]
[...]I probably wouldnt have gone with Iceland in the first place, which by most accounts is a VERY speculative currency. "
I guess what I'm NOT going to try to figure out, is what your angle is and who told you I was interested in what you would "have gone with in the first place". Also, who has asked Everbank "to pay for a loss",, which is only one once it is one. I'm also not going to explain that to you: I have no time to bring newborns like you up to speed.
"Anyone can make uneducated responses with no reprecussions".
On the other hand, I just can't bring myself to your level of hypocrisy by wishing you "good luck"... and I certainly can't fathom your claim of "non-bias". You may have done your job here, but that won't deter me and hopefully others...
If they have no fear of the market, they will continue to abuse it. At this point i would consider myself at "odds" with Everbank. I would be among their least favorable reviewers. the only way we are going to prevent Everbank from gutting the other investors is to hold teir feet to the fire while questioning their reputation as a trustworthy bank in a VERY PUBLIC manner with the truth of what tehy have done. No distortions of the truth, no postulations, just what they have done, and what they said they would do, and what is legal/illegal about it.
I would hazard to guess that the Everbank staffers in MO knew ahead of time not to invest in ISK, and probably so did the executives. Wy they failed to post their concerns, and knowledge base in the informational / misinformational "Phenning" is in hindsight rather open to criticism.
Christian, I am with you 100% of the way on this, I will be keeping tabs on this, and believe thta we shouldn't limit this to this forum, it should go "viral" on facebook, myspace, and any other public investment forum we can think of, (there must be a few hundred out there), to make people aware of what banks are doing to their investors, not just Everbank. I think it may be past time to "cull the herd" of financial institutions so to speak by using market forces of supply and demand. I wouldn't at this point trust an Everbank employee any further than I could toss them, and this position may apply to employees of a few other banks in the future.
The more people that know about this the more likely we are to recover our investment it is that simple.
Chris
1. Everbank bought a forward contract at the time of CD opening with a non-disclosed financial intermediary, which in turn opened another forward contract with Iceland's central bank, SedlaBanki;
2. At maturity, they converted allegedly at the "auction" rate from Sedlabanki.
At the core:
* Everbank ISK CD customers did NOT buy a forward contract; we bought an FDIC insured Certificate of Deposit. We paid a SPOT conversion fee;
* Everbank forcefully liquidated our deposits at non-published rates (256:1) on a day (2008-10-29) the average quote from several sources were at 117:1;
* Everbank made no effort to inform its customers of what their intentions were, and went so far as to indicate rollovers up until they liquidated.
Now then, what’s the best course of action? I provided links above to initiate complaints via regular channels. We should all do so promptly. I am in contact with a corporate attorney at this time looking into a attorney reference that can best handle a personal lawsuit. And last but not least, we need to get a good lawyer for a class-action lawsuit, this last situation in which I have no experience.
I agree, it is deceitful that we thought we were buying CDs but Everbank was actually buying forward contracts. That might also explain why they couldn't get the 12+% interest rate that the Central Bank has been offering in recent months.
I tried to have it out on the phone with the Everbank representatives, but they defer any difficulty and blame to the "non-disclosed financial intermediary." I would really like to know who this intermediary is, as I suspect is is a subsidiary of Everbank, and thus Everbank is benefiting from our misfortune much more than we are aware of.
Please inform us of the action being taken in regards to class-action or other effective outlets to voice our displeasure.
• Either they provide what they promised, that is a DEPOSIT of ISKs, plus their advertised interest (BTW, the interest gains were declared on my tax returns) - OR - either they provide restitution of my initial capital, plus prevailing 3-month CD rates of currency deposited;
• Everbank is liable for damages and legal costs;
• Everbank World Markets must cease and desist on their products as they are not what they claim.
Forward contracts don't have a interest rate yield: Everbank was advertising, and providing at least initially, APYs within 2-3% of currency interest rates, which naturally increased the illusion we had deposits in ISK.
I'm trying to contact banking regulators to ask what can be done. Can we sue?
PS - good that you both filed a complaint. I've never had confidence in these so-called oversight entities but it won't hurt to try...
I hope there are regulations about CDs that will help us. At some point we will probably need to hire an attorney with banking experience. I have no idea if the OTS is a proactive agency with real clout. Certainly the timing is right for the government to be kicking some bankers in the ass.
As for the timing, it could go both ways, namely banks are on the hot seat, or that authorities are numb and view this only in the context of "much bigger fish to fry". Everbank no doubt hopes and is calculating on the latter.
I just got off the phone with their rep. He claims that Bloomberg/PacificExchange/etc rates are bogus and don't represent any real market rates someone could actually get.
I will file all and any possible complain there is. I don't believe the 30% "spread" between EverBank and Bloomberg on that day. I don't believe they could just close Certificate of Deposit at will.
If I open CD at local bank at let say X%, but later market conditions would make the bank to lose money paying me X%, could bank just say: "All right, the game is over, we close your CD"?
Should I care how my bank invests my money and what treatment it gets on the open market? I risked by investing in foreign currency and lost when it tanked, but EverBank also risked by offering me the CD with fixed duration, so they should at least share the loses and not to rip me off with those strangely-looking rates.
I just read the November issue of Chuck Butler's 'newsletter' of November. He has the nerve to state they have been informing ISK CD holder's of what was coming down by emailing account holders every week since Spring. Their dishonesty knows no bounds! 1st, I never got such an email, even though I held 2 CDs with them (my email is valid with them; I receive the usual statement notification email from them). 2nd, I doubt they were informing customers their CDs would be shut down forcefully and at 1/2 market value! Of course, their online and written statements showed "rollover" even up to the day of maturity!
Everbank are truly the worst kind of crooks. I will not let this thing just drop and neither should any of us...
I had started hoping that given the Icelandic Bank raised rates to 18 percent and announced they would float the currency, there would be some chance to recoup losses over time. Just today, Krona appreciated 10%.
I have a regular savings account with Everbank and I am transferring everything to Citi and JP Morgan ASAP.
I hate Everbank.
How about Missouri and Florida where Everbank World Markets and Everbank is headquarted?
Yes, I have filed complaints with the Attorney Generals in 3 states (MO, FL and mine), still waiting to hear from them! No response from OTS yet either! I looks like I'm going to have to sue independently...
256? You got lucky. I was sold out at 263 and the Krona has appreciated 20% in the subsequent 2 days. Plus Ever-fraud charged commission on the way out just to piss on me while I was down.
Unbelievable.
I've already gotten an attorney for this. I'm looking to recoup 100% on this now based on Everbank's abdication of their fiduciary duty and false advertising of the product.
There have been quite a few individuals that have ripped us for our handling of the Iceland meltdown, but as you can read above, there WERE CURRENCY CONTROLS in place...
Chuck, if any of the account statements that were sent out by Everbank were in fact true, and we actually had certificates of deposit denominated in ISK instead of a currency forward contract, we could have waited until the CURRENCY CONTROLS were lifted- you prick.
Looking for a SheepSkin for hire.
Dan, you hit the nail on the head, Butler, Everbank = PRICK SCAM ARTISTS.
For disclosure, I want everyone to know that I have contacted the OTS by fax and am going to follow up by phone this week. I have also followed Hans Bader's post from November 11th and contacted Mike Millen. I sent him the latest renewal letter (and other supporting documents) showing how much ISK I supposedly owned and when my CD would be rolled over. He is gathering information for the class-action lawsuit.
I am asking for 100% of my money back PLUS interest PLUS lawyers' fees for what I think was an illegally marketed product. Remember, Everbank is a regulated BANK, not an unregulated Ponzi Scheme. There are rules that need to be followed.
ADDENDUM, NOVEMBER 11: To all the folks who have emailed me about this: I apologize for this, but I am so busy now that I can’t respond to all your emails. I believe that one avenue for you to pursue is to file a complaint with the Office of Thrift Supervision. Another option would be to file a class action lawsuit in court. I received an email a long time ago from an attorney, Mike Millen of 119 Calle Marguerita #100, Los Gatos, California 95032, expressing interest in learning more about this situation (MikeMillen-at-aol.com). Mr. Millen might be able to provide you with some advice or assistance if you write to him.
Finally, Christine Ozburn (Consumer Affairs) concludes: " If you have not heard from the institution of from us within 60 days" call our junk consumer line to talk to an employee who not only can't do anything, but doesn't give a shit. (that last part is my free interpretation). By the way, they took over a month just to put that form letter in the mail...
OTS is obviously a firewall for banks and other so-called "institutions". So we should not expect any help there. In fact, it's a complete waste of time and energy. I do have some hope, however slight, with state general attorneys, especially mine, whose job it is to uphold citizens’ rights.
That said, we really do need to organize and be able to provide a full frontal, potent engagement against this scam. If Mike Millen is at all serious in providing this, I ask he post here DIRECTLY and state his goals/estimate of success.
Preferably, I would like to go after Everbank as a well organized, potent, group of victims of this SCAM. If nothing comes form this, or from the 3 state attorney generals I have contacted (FL, MO and xx), I will probably pursue this matter individually.
I would like for you to address this on the OpenMarket.org forum directly, as I think it's important victims are made aware of VALID ways to defend themselves, rather than some vague possibilities as described on the site.
Regards,
Christian
- mr sarkar
Attention: Thomas A. Hajda Everbank General Counsel
Chuck Butler, President Everbank World Markets
Saturday, December 13, 2008
Dears Sirs:
This letter is in response to your letter, dated October 30, 2008 in which you responded to my Fedexed letter, dated Thursday, October 16, 2008, in which I provided my written instructions to explicitly “roll-over” my CD denominated in ISK maturing October 29, 2008. My letter was received by Everbank on October 21, 2008, signed for by “D.Goodman”. Even though every document I have from Everbank stated the “roll-over” would be automatic, I wanted to make sure there was no misunderstanding on the issue. Of course, I also provided online instructions to the same. I note you did not state receipt of my Fedexed letter, but rather referred only to the online message on your Everbank web site, which is either unprofessional at best, or an attempt at deception, at worst.
Nevertheless, Everbank did forcefully close out the CD and exchanged it for USD at a rate of 253:1, compared to most quoted rates of the day (118:1). Although the rates Everbank provided were absolutely unfair to me, and exhibited Everbank’s obvious disdain for its customers, this is in fact not the core of the issue: ownership of a deposit (me) with a certification from the guardian of that deposit (Everbank). As the owner of that deposit, I and only I can determine when and the conditions of its withdrawal. As an institution, Everbank has the legal and fiduciary obligation to respect my ownership, even though Everbank may impose restrictions and other policies, such as early withdrawal fees and such. That in mind, nowhere within Everbank’s literature, prospectus or schedules available to me (I maintain copies), was there any indication of a forced closing on a certificate of deposit. The only case Everbank could do that would be if Everbank financially collapsed, and its FDIC insurance would consequently protect depositors. This was not the case here.
What Mr Hajda explained in his letter was that Everbank entered into risky “forward contracts” on the Icelandic currency (ISK). This is irrelevant to my certificate of deposit as investing strategies of banks is not of my concern, ultimately, as I had and still have FDIC insured deposits. The same is true with all bank investments using depositors’ funds as the basis for banks’ investments. If I had wanted to take on that additional risk, on top of currency valuations, I would not have opened a Certificate of Deposit!!!
With this letter:
1. I demand Everbank pay me the value of my deposit, plus CD interest, plus typical money market interest of what is owed me for the time it is owed, minus what has already been refunded;
2. I am instructing Everbank, once again, to “roll-over” my 2nd ISK CD, maturing 12/17/2008. If Everbank will not that, I demand to be paid the full value of my deposit plus interest.
One possibility is to start SEVERAL linked blogs on this issue, so that we can get in touch with more customers that got drawn into everbank's unilateral CD actions.
If so, please contact Mike Millen. He's a California attorney, and it would be easier for him to potentially bring a class action if one of the adversely affected people he's representing lives in California.
You can write to him at MikeMillen-at-aol.com, or me at hbader-at-cei.org.
Thanks,
Hans Bader
Forget about an Icelandic bank account. I opened one, and then they said they couldn't transfer to that account. Chuck is conveniently gone until Dec 29th. I just joined your club.
1. Hammer the official channels with demands of action;
2. Approach specialized lawyers as to the feasibility of a class action lawsuit;
3. If and when the above 2 have failed, consider an individual lawsuit against Everbank.
I got an email from MikeMillen@aol.com a couple of weeks ago saying he was preparing to make an announcement to us, but Hans Bader's post above suggests to me we'd have to live in California for that, which I don't.
Its is nice to know I have companions on this journey through misfortune- referring ofcourse
to our Icelandic Krona accounts with Everbank World Market. My $20,000 venture investment
in a Icelandic Krona certificate account was redeemed by some agent of the Everbank World
Market division for $6015 dollars on Dec 10th 2008. The CD account should have matured on
Dec 7th 2008 because thats when my financial situation was destroyed much like the US Fleet
at Pearl Harbor. On Dec 8th- I notified Everbank World Market to place my Icelandic Krona
account in a bank escrow account until the financial crisis in the Icelandic banks had abated.
I got a "Sorry were having our "Fire Sale" today. My Everbank World Market account has
reduced my net worth $13,985 dollars in 12 months ( I'm Retired ) The Wall Street Journal quoted
the Icelandic Krona at 121k per US dollar on my maturity date.That would give me a 50%
loss, instead of at 2217.12k per US dollar, or a 70% give away bargian. I need a good laywer to
sort out this information for proper Litigation and to notify the proper authorities so they can
determine what legal conduct the Everbank World Currency Division perpetratedon their
Icelandic CD clients. How to get Justice for a US citizen against the World Banking Community
is the real question. Ehat I really hate is playing Santa Claus to a bunch of real carpetbaggers.
Well freinds- tis the season to be jolly- So have a "Scary Christmas to all and to all just get tight
as Charlie road out of sight.......Ho..Ho..Ho
EAR
It's clear Everbank wants a fight so they will get one. I am going to make sure it's as painful for them as it has been for me.
Mike wants somebody in CA because the laws are favorable there to initiate a suit of this kind. However I live in NY which is consumer friendly as well and am happy to be the lead plaintiff.
Since Everbank is located in Islandia, NY, I am sure Andrew Cuomo's office would be interested in this. He's going to make Spitzer look like a banking crony. You reading this Everbank???
The web address is as follows: http://thetruthabouteverbank.blogspot.com/
Jeez, what a nation of "whiners" "whining". Didn't you know this is all in your head?
Everyone should encourage / do a Google search on "truth about everbank"...
http://thetruthabouteverbank.blogspot.com/
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.
With approximately $6 billion in assets and the support of 1,500 employees, the EverBank® Family of Companies builds upon a long-standing commitment to deliver innovative banking, lending, and investment products and services of exceptional value. Over 450,000 customers benefit from our high yields on checking and saving products, unique global market products such as foreign...
New Hires and Recent Promotions at EverBank
Zac Addison, Assistant Vice President -- Litigation
was Assistant Vice President -- Litigation at Citi Residential Lending - 3 months ago
Russ Cox, VP Project Management
was Group Director - Customer Care at HSBC Card Services - 4 months ago
Kathy Mulholland, Accounting and Audit Coordinator
was Associate, Project Resources Division at Steven Douglas Associates - 2 months ago
Julie Hutcheson, HR Business Partner
was HR Generalist at First Guaranty Bank - 2 months ago
Justin Ferris, Area Sales Manager at EverBank
was Sales Manager at American Sterling Bank - 5 months ago
Elizabeth Brown, VP Senior Project Management
was AVP Project Management - 2 months ago
Christian Kren, Vice President of Business Finance
was Vice President Planning & Analysis - 5 months ago
Jason Coots, Vice President-Marketing
was Assistant Vice President-Marketing - 5 months ago
Jim Hamby, SVP Director of Business Finance
was SVP - 3 months ago
Dan Pastrana, Loan Officer with The Advisor Group
was Underwriter/Processor - 4 months ago
"From a outsider's prospective, it sounds like you are getting worked up over an investment decision you made that lost money/value and you are looking to recoup your losses through the bank that offered the investment."
"I am not directly involved in this, so I apologize if I come across as butting in, but it sounds like someone needs to play devil's advocate, and a lot of what I have read just seems contradictive."
"Just trying to give you an unbiased opinion, no need to be a jerk about it Christian..."
On a "free market," Libertarian blog site that continues to extol anti-regulatory ideology, its IRONIC.